Shock Horror! B&Q Sale Not All it Should Be?
Sorry ... couldn't resist the headline. It was prompted by an article by James Thompson from the Independent - saying that B&Q's prices in their January sale are very similar to the prices they were charging in October - and that their prices were increased in December, just so that they could reduce them in January and claim to be giving a 50% discount.
The only shock horror in that ... is if the Independent is surprised.
Any of you who have read my Kitchen Design Guide won't be at all surprised. The list prices of many national kitchen suppliers (not just B&Q), seem to be a complete fiction. You could buy a very superior made-to-measure, or even bespoke, kitchen for those sort of prices.
I think we, the consumers ... well alright YOU the consumers (I'm not a kitchen buyer!) ... are partly to blame. We're such suckers for a bargain that we don't ask too closely how real that bargain is. The direct sellers, who come to your house, rely upon it.
So what are B&Q kitchens really like? Well they have two ranges, a basic, cheap one called it and a better quality range which used to be called "Select" and which they've revamped and now call "Cooke & Lewis".
The Cooke & Lewis kitchens look good to me. Here's a modern white and Zebrano high gloss:
And here's the more traditional Gosford - with an inset framed look:
If you search the internet, though, you'll come across quite a few complaints about B&Q kitchens arriving without all the necessary parts - and all sorts of problems with delivery - seems to be a common problem with national companies.
I'll be up-dating my reviews of the national suppliers - for my new Kitchen Design Guide. Due mid-February.
Comments
this comment was from Paul McCloskey ... sorry ... not all the comments were transferred when the new web site was set up:
Purchased from Cooke&Lewis range in November 08, for delivery 12.12.08.
This kitchen is STILL being delivered in part orders resulting in myself being without cooking facilities since mid December 08.
Now going to litigation stage.The whole experience has been totally shocking.I will strongly advise anyone to think twice before purchasing any kitchen from B&Q.They promise the moon and deliver MISERY.
Having nice quality kitchen units just isn't enough ... good customer service is necessary too ... and the multiples so often seem to fall down on that.
Buying a kitchen and having it fitted is such a major upheaval that when it goes wrong it's almost bound to be a complete nightmare.
Best of luck with sorting it out!
Sue then added this comment:
I too ordered a Cooke and Lewis Kitchen in Dec 08 and am having same nightmare as Paul. It has been partly installed by an independent fitter but B and Q have failed to deliver all parts- doors missing, breakfast bar etc and they dont give a toss!
Just been told breakfast bar won't arrive until end of marchl!! and hinges for corner unit until end of April. Was told cupboard insides would match doors- they dont- they're white.
Never again- very stressful time. I too have been without a kitchen since beginning of dec 08
Oh dear! It really isn't good enough is it? I'm sorry to hear they've let you down too, Sue.
It's such a lovely brochure they've produced and the Cooke & Lewis quality seems quite good. But that's all useless, if they can't deliver a whole ktchen, all in one go.
According to the brochure, they do oak, ash, birch or white carcasses; so I guess if your kitchen isn't oak, ash or birch, you would get white carcasses. You could probably live with that ... if all the rest was delivered efficiently.
I can't believe they're saying you can't have hinges before April. That's ridiculous!
Fitting Cooke & Lewis gloss white kitchen
One work top damaged, wall unit end panel damaged, porcelain sink flawed, surveyor drawing I'm working to - two base draw line clash - one will not open hits other door, one wall unit door edging bad finish
Ordered black ebony splashbacks 600 mm x 3 metres; one months delivery.
Some base unit finish edging poor ... again surveyor was supposed to speak to customer.
I tried to get surveyor ... left messages ... took two weeks till he finally contacted me.
Larder end panel £140 plus £30 delivery ... same with splashbacks ... needless to say customer very, very annoyed. She tried to order parts at local b&q but only home delivery - big con.
Will never recommend to any customer, Cooke & Lewis - ever - very disappointed in their feedback
Phew - I'm exhausted just reading about your problems Ken - you're the fitter I take it. I added a few breaks in your story - just to make it easier to read
Did you get tired of scrolling down the page? Or did you read my last comment, at the bottom, hoping for a positive story about a B&Q kitchen - and decide not to spoil it? The former, I suspect!
I do feel for fitters who have problems with a kitchen ... after all you're there on site with a very irate customer ... even if none of the problems are your fault.
As for B&Q's customer service - it doesn't sound good - and I don't think I could recommend using them myself, even though I know - as I point out somewhere below - that people commenting on here probably aren't a representative sample.
One unhappy customer is an unhappy customer too many!
I feel a bit better after reading the other comments; my husband and I have been trying to fit our Cooke and Lewis kitchen for the last 2 months.
We have had plenty of experience fitting kitchens in the past but this has been a complete nightmare. I can't begin to go into details about everything that is wrong, but tonight after taking the central island apart for the fourth time we have realized that the original design is wrong and there is no way it would have ever fitted together.
I could do a better job than the kitchen designer at B&Q. I am going back to B&Q tomorrow but don't expect much joy - they treat you as if you are stupid, I think they dont like customers that dont use their fitting service.
Hi Sandra ... yes, I'm afraid some so called kitchen designers give the profession a bad name. It doesn't help that the designs are "free". Or at least that's my opinion (I may be biased!). The cost is, of course, included in the price of the kitchen ... but saying that they're free - I think - devalues the process.
I've mentioned elsewhere the B&Q kitchen designer who reckoned he couldn't use building plans to produce a preliminary kitchen design!
I don't know whether or not B&Q prefer you to use their fitting service. I guess they probably make a bit of profit on it ... but I'd have thought that a huge percentage of their business would be supply only. Most high street suppliers are delighted ... if they don't have to organise the fitting ... some even give a discount for "supply only" jobs.
If any B&Q designers happen across this blog ... perhaps they could enlighten us ... if any of them are still talking to me, that is (I know you're not all bad!).
We have had an Amberley Kitchen fitted using their guys to do it. Kitchen was ordered in January 09 and the fit started beginning of July 09. They are still coming to the house to finish jobs off and everything has been arranged direct with their fitters. The installations customer care team have phoned maybe three or four times and dont seem to be able to handle a complaint. Whinging over ... now for the question.
The Amberley is made from Walnut (apparently). This kitchen is sold as durable and ideal for modern living (I have a Basset Hound who is no trouble and a Five year old). The main reason the fitter keeps comming back is because we kept noticing marks on the units from the installation. I have real concerns about how durable this kitchen actually is. It seems to mark really easily. I know its wood and therefore organic so I must expect a bit of a lived in look after a while but this just seems impractical.
Am I being unreasonable?
Hi Stuart ... who's this Marjorie?!
In answer to your question. The Amberley kitchen from B&Q definitely says that it has solid wood frames with wood veneer panels. It doesn't actually say, in the literature, that it's real walnut.
It does say, though, that it's a family kitchen and the general blurb says that "Durability is central to our design, ensuring that our kitchens are as hard working as they are good looking."
If the fitters marked the units then it's only right that they should come back and remove those marks. How did they do that? Or did they replace the parts affected? Did they make any comment about the marks? The fitters often know more about the practicalities of a kitchen than the designers do.
Presumably all the marks from the fitting are now removed. Is it still marking in everyday use? Fitting, after all, is a much more extreme test of the kitchen than normal use.
Timber doors are usually much more forgiving than, say, high gloss doors ... and don't show marks as much. There are two reasons I can think of, as to why they might be marking. One is that they're highly sanded, with a very smooth finish, and that they don't have enough of a protective lacquer to protect them. The other is that it's the protective lacquer itself that is marking.
I can't tell whether or not you're being unreasonable ... because, of course, I can't see how bad the marks are. If you think that the marks are continuing in everyday use and that they are unacceptable, then I'd do two things:
1) Put a complaint in writing to the customer service department at B&Q head office ... and send it recorded delivery
2) Take a picture of the worst marks, take it to your local Trading Standards office and ask their advice. If the kitchen marks too easily it may not be fit for purpose.
Hope that helps
MajjieSorry Majjie, I dont know who Marjorie is either (think I was in the zone on the complaint).
I wasnt sure if you had heard anything about this Amberley Kitchen before. We have noticed that even now a soft plastic spatula can mark the wood with very little effort (say brushing past). We feel that the kitchen has to be treated with kid gloves and that just isnt practical.
We got in touch with the installations team about it and they told us to make two complaints. One to them for the length of time for the fit (by the way, the fitters damaged the kitchen when they were fitting it, repaired now though), and the second complaint to the store for the quality of the kitchen.
Basically, we want shut of them but are worried that after spending a lot of money, we are going to be left with another rip out job in a years time.
One of the fitters did take pity on us and gave us some wax to put on the marks, but I just feel short changed.
From what appeared to be a very positive shopping expereince to now has just been an ordeal really.
Thanks for the advice.
You're welcome Stuart ... and you're forgiven for talking to Marjorie!
I would definitely pursue your complaint - with B&Q's head office - if you're not happy with the kitchen. Ask them what the finish on the doors is.
It's a real shame when a kitchen doesn't live up to expectations ... because it's such an upheaval to have it fitted ... and because a new kitchen should be a joy to live and work in.
It may not come to ripping the whole thing out, though. Your kitchen doors are real wood, with solid frames, after all. I might be tempted - if you don't get anywhere with B&Q - to get a couple of little sample doors/drawer fronts, of the same finish, and experiment with varnishes/lacquers to protect the surface.
I know you shouldn't have to ... I know lacquering all the timber parts would be a big job ... and I know it wouldn't be cheap. I know that if you leave it until the marks are really bad, then the doors will probably need sanding ... and then you may get problems with the staining of the timber. So ... do pursue the complaint as far as you can ... but, as a last resort, it might be better than going for a whole new kitchen!
Hi there, we are just about to order a classic chestnut(light wood colour) Cooke and Lewis kitchen from B&Q but after looking at it on display, we were told that the colour co-ordinated sides of the units have now been changed and that all the units are white but we can buy clad on panels to cover the sides of the units that will be on display.
This means that we will need 23 clad on panels. Here's the interesting part, these panels will cost us £1,540.00 to buy. They are more expensive than the units!
If the carcasses had remained with colour end pieces (even though they were white inside), we would be £1,540.00 better off! This seems ridiculous.
We have to have the clad ons or the kitchen will be wooden, with white sides! We thought they must be made of real wood for that price (£40, £70 and £100 depending on size) but they are only coloured melamine. We feel like we are being ripped off and are now debating whether or not to continue with the purchase. Its a lot of money for a few side panels!
I dont understand, Why would you need 23 clad on panels?
You do understand that the panels are just for the cabinets where you see the full sides on display?
In a general kitchen you only really need about 6.. +2 if you have a chimney hood as the 2 wall units need ones on either side. and if you have base and wall units at the side you would need panels for that too.
Do you have a island unit?
I'm so miffed by this 23..
I didn't understand that either Scott (see below) ... but Marie never got back to me ...
Hi Marie,
Well, I don't particularly want to get on the wrong side of B&Q, but yes ... I'd say the price of their end panels is a rip off ... since they're just colour matched, melamine faced chipboard.
To buy a base end panel (870 x 600) in the same material from a high street kitchen range, like Crown Imperial or Colonial, would cost you around £20-25 ... and you could have a whole panel 2,300 x 650mm approx. for about £60. If you went to an internet supplier (high volume, low overheads) you'd pay about £19 for a base end panel and £53 for a tall end panel (2300 x 600mm).
Of course, there wouldn't be any point in going to another supplier, if the kitchen units themselves would be a lot more expensive. What B&Q (and a lot of other suppliers - including MFI, before their demise) do - is sell their units very cheaply but make more profit on the accessories. You may have noticed that the accessories are rarely included in any sale.
Having said that, though, I don't think the Classic Chestnut range ever had colour matched carcasses. It certainly says in my brochure (from November last year) that the carcasses are white.
What does strike me, is that 23 clad on end panels is an excessively large number. Are you sure you need that many? Have you got a huge kitchen? Or is the design very free standing in style? If I design a kitchen that needs end panels, I usually think 8 to 10 is a large number!
If you have any way of copying the plan and sending it by e-mail (or if you just popped a copy in the post) ... I'd be happy to take a look
MajjieTo cut a long story short our kitchen was a nightmare - fitted by B&Qs contractors - we had 3 different teams of fitters before we have got it somwere nearly right.
We have been given compensation but as yet not cashed the cheque because we are having difficulties over the tiles we chose ... Mosaic Tiles which was put on while we were away. Well when we got home it was like a bomb site. We called B&Q straight away - they came to look - and they sacked that team of fitters on the spot.
So we had another firm in. They took all the Mosaic Tiles off and when the new Tiler came to put them on the wall he tried but failed also.
My question to B&Q is why sell tiles when their fitters cannot put them on the walls? I think I am justified in asking B&Q to remove all the Mosaic Tiles from there stores if they can't be fitted.
Has anybody any advice for me as to what to do next? I would never again buy a kitchen from B&Q.
Sorry to hear about your problems Steve. I think I should re-name this blog "Shock Horror! B&Q Not All It Should Be!"
It's difficult to comment on the mosaic tiles without knowing what, exactly, the problem was. Other tilers manage to fit other mosaic tiles without any problem. So were both your tilers bad workmen? Or is there really a problem with the tiles themselves?
The only thing I can suggest is that you find a tilers forum ... tell them what the problems were exactly ... and see what an expert tiler thinks.
Oh and I'd keep complaining to B&Q ... send a recorded delivery letter to their head office ... and maybe pay a visit to your local Trading Standards office. Did you take some photos of the problems?
If anyone else has any suggestions ... do please add them.
If I had known then, what I do now, I would have never ordered my kitchen from B&Q.
It started out being quite a pleasurable experience visiting the store, speaking to the friendly and helpful staff and deciding to have a design. We sat the appointment and were very happy with not only the price, but also what we saw, so we then placed the order.
The problem is as staff in the store will happily tell you, its the management and the "SFC" who supply the products.
Ordered February 26th 2009, delivery of the entire kitchen + appliances was due April 19th. I wasnt too worried about the 2 month wait and planned accordingly with me wanting to fit it the first week of May.
First delivery came, but only about half of the kitchen showed up, since then I have had to spend every week chasing up missing items and had soo many promises and deliveries. I finally got the last of the items at the start of this month!! Almost ONE YEAR after ordering!!!
Ive tried very hard to find an email address for Euan Sutherland the head of B&Q but had no luck. Written head office letters have done me little good. Not very impressed, buy elsewhere is my advice.
I'm afraid all I can do is repeat my "oh dear" and "sorry to hear that" comments. It's such a shame when B&Q could be a really good source of reasonably priced kitchens.
By the law of averages ... and human nature ... there are bound to be bits missing from some kitchens sent out. Obviously, I can't tell, from the comments I get here, what percentage of B&Q kitchens have those sort of problems. It could be quite low (although my fitter friends don't seem impressed either).
What is unforgiveable, though, is the amount of time and effort it takes to sort the problems out. There's no excuse for that!
I'm afraid my advice too - would be to buy elsewhere
Well, despite the above comments I've gone ahead and started ordering my kitchen. My first order of doors, hinges and plinths were delivered exactly when promissed.
My second delivery of cabinets, work tops & more hinges is due in May, however, the 'Island' work top arrived early, out of the blue, two weeks ago, so I suppose I can't complain, but is this a sign of an eratic system with problems on the horizon?!!
Oh - I do hope not - it would be nice to hear a success story about B&Q for a change.
Fingers crossed!
I bought my kitchen from B&Q a good few months back and I couldnt disagree more about what everyone is saying, Honestly! The staff were so lovely and the designer was just amazing.
I ordered the Cook and Lewis kitchens along with the installation service they offer and I have even went back this week to get the bathroom done now!
Well, thank goodness for that. Thanks Kirsty - I knew B&Q must have a happy customer somewhere!
Seriously, though, when you sell as many kitchens as B&Q do, there are bound to be mistakes and glitches sometimes. That's not surprising. What is disappointing is that they don't seem to be terribly good at sorting things out quickly and efficiently.
Purchased kitchen from B&Q in January and installation agreed for 08/04/10. One fitter arrived interspaced with electricion and tiler.
Two weeks later and the frames started falling out. Closer inspection revealed unaligned cupboards, marked frames, handles not correctly fitted etc etc.
Electrics have been deemed unsafe (by B&Q) and the plumbing described as "not quite right". The taps are fitted the wrong way round and fastended to the sink with 'No nails'. The sink is bowed in the middle, the lights in the cupboards continually short, waste disposal leaks and there are bare wires under a unit. All isolators are in cupboards near water and the tiling is uneven and not corectly finished.
B&Q have agreed to rip it out and start again but have given a start date of 21/07/10, whilst we are left with a sub standard kitchen. How can I get them to 'hurry up' and what recourse do I have.
Blimey Ian, what a catalogue of errors! Your problems are slightly different to many of the ones that have gone before ... in that your fitters were definitely incompetent.
Of course, B&Q are responsible, if the fitting was part of the contract ... and you have to give them the opportunity to put things right. It does seem unfair that you should have to wait so long ... but I'm not sure there's much you can do ... B&Q aren't known for their swift and efficient responses to complaints!
The Citizens Advice Bureau - or Trading Standards - are normally the people to talk to ... and I would certainly ask their advice on what sort of time scales they consider to be reasonable, for rectifying serious problems like yours. What about your local paper, though? They might be interested in running a piece on how long you have to wait. No company likes bad publicity - large ones least of all.
Sometimes I want to pick up the managers of companies like B&Q, and shake them. There must be a better way of doing things!
Now at the end of my tether with BQ
Had kitchen measured in February 2010, heard nothing had it measured a second time still nothing.Eventually got the kitchen planned and this is when all our troubles started.
Ordered "black hi gloss Cooke and Lewis". When surveyor came to us with plans he had ..grey fridge we ordered black... dual fuel range we ordered all gas.. no plinth lights which we had ordered.. it went from bad to worse...black Cooke and Lewis base units and - god knows why - white budget IT range wall units...
After weeks of visiting the York store and no returned phone calls the kitchen was delivered(one white and one black?)
The wrong cooker was delivered. When we questioned it - was told the one we ordered was discontinued - therefore cooker hood was wrong so we had to choose replacement(out of latest catulogue)to be told it was discontinued.. what a surprise.
No backsplash (which was the wow factor of the kitchen in the first place)
I could go on and on and on
At the moment we have got half a kitchen
Please can anyone help?
This is causing so much upset each time I ring BQ I just keep being told "we will turn this around"
ANYONE THINKING OF BUYING A KITCHEN FROM BQ PLEASE THINK TWICE
Oh dear Sue!
All I can offer is virtual tea and sympathy ... and my usual suggestions of the CAB and Trading Standards.
I can just imagine all the upset it's causing you!!
Hmm ... and your comment helps how exactly?
There isn't very much I can actually do, to make B&Q more efficient, and care more about after sales service, now is there?
If people want a sympathetic ear, they're welcome to comment here ... if they don't ... well, nobody's forcing anyone to comment.
It's my website ... and I'll continue to acknowledge comments, even if I can't do anything to help.
I have ordered a bathroom suite from B&Q some 7 weeks ago. It is a Cook and Lewis
when I ordered it I was told 3 weeks and I would have it delivered to my home. I am still waiting for it.
After I had paid for it I received a phone call from B&Q and was told that the wash hand basin would be 7/8 weeks the rest of the suite was in the depot, I was then told that the hand basin had not been made yet
I did receive a call from the transport part of B&Q ... would I be in the next Friday. I ask why and was told that they would call me to arange the delivery of the suite
I stopped in to await the call but no call so I waited while the next Monday and called then to see what was going on. "Dont know" I was told. Where is my bath room suite I ask. "dont know" I was told. "It might be in one of the containers that arrived over the weekend - will call you back". No call back.
I rang them. "Where is my bathroom suite?" I ask. "We have part of it in the warehouse and the sink is still in Italy" I was told. "When will I be getting it" I ask. "you can have part of it now and you can have the sink 10/12/14 of June I think
This has took 9 weeks and I have found out that B&Q are selling things they dont have. I am still waiting for the bathroom suite. Also on the same day I ordered two internal doors. I am still waiting for them. When I ordered them I was told 3 weeks, when they did not come I called and asked "are they in" ... the doors I mean. "No they have not come in yet - I will call you back". He did call me back: "Mr Grannon some bad news for you" "what's that?" I ask. "The doors are not even made yet, but if you keep the order with us I will get you 25 pound off".
Still waiting. Good news ... I am getting some parts in the morning and the rest in June
What are B&Q UP TO?
I am going in to get some more discount off them ... watch this page
Sam
That's quite a story Sam.
B&Q seem to be champions of the "not quite in time" ... verging on the "nowhere near in time" stock control system!
Of course, if someone from B&Q would like to comment here about what percentage of their deliveries are "just in time" ... they'd be very welcome.
Hi MAJJIE!
have the fitter here now - fitting what he can. Still no trace of the sink and its stand. They told me it might be in this weekend. ha ha ha!
I have told them that the fitter has a six week job on from Friday and I will not see him until then. He's told me to call him when I get the sink and stand - and if he has a bit of time off that job he will try and fit me in.
Still not got the doors yet. I would like to know if anyone from B&Q looks at this site and what are they thinking about
sam
Hi Sam - can't help you there I'm afraid - I've no idea whether or not anyone from B&Q looks at this thread. A lot of companies do monitor what's said about them on the internet ... but for B&Q it would probably be a full time job!
I'm happy for them to comment if they want to.
It's a bit of a nightmare for fitters when they're booked in to do a job and there's stuff missing. You can understand why a lot of them don't like B&Q ... although there are probably some who are quite happy ... they're welcome to comment too.
I have just had a kitchen designer in to give me a quote as I thought I would take advantage of the 5 years interest-free loan they are offering until today.
The gentleman was very nice, seemed to know what he was doing and knew which ranges were discontinued (out of the four I had pre-selected as possibles, only one was still available - the most expensive).
Nevertheless, having taken me two years to take the plunge and go for a new kitchen I was all ears to his suggestions. The only appliances I was asking to be replaced was a hob, gas oven and (perhaps) a dishwasher. My kitchen is tiny - 6ft x 7ft, but the quote was staggering at over £7k.
'But just think Mrs Miles - over 60 months you will only be paying £110 per month'. (Plus my 10 percent deposit ofcourse).
I have just read the various comments you have all made and my question is this - are B&Q really giving a good deal and should I risk going with them? (Just to to install/fit the cooker, hob and extracter fan is totalling nearly £550 - over and above the cost of the appliances). My mind is totally boggled!
Hi, Mrs Miles (for I am assuming it is you!)
£7k does sound a lot ... but we'd have to know a bit more about what was included, to say whether or not it was reasonable for what you're getting.
Do you have a breakdown of the price and/or a list of units ... and what style of door was it? It's fair enough to say that some ranges have been discontinued - but that usually means that new ones have been introduced - did your gentleman not suggest any less expensive ranges as alternatives?
Even if the kitchen is expensive ... most of the cheaper alternatives don't involve credit. If it was possible to get what you wanted for £5k - say - would you be able to afford it, if you had to pay it all at once?
I don't know for sure ... it may be that they're giving you interest free credit ... but not giving you as much discount on the kitchen, as you would normally get. They have so many sales ... but there's a legal obligation, I believe, to have the kitchens up for sale at their full price for a certain amount of time. I'm not saying that B&Q are doing this for sure ... but what a lot of the companies that work in this way do ... is to offer other incentives - on appliances, or fitting - or, perhaps, interest free credit, during that period.
Sorry - it's not a very definite answer. Without more information I can't tell whether that's an unreasonably high price, or not.
Just had a Cook & Lewis kitchen from B&Q. All the units arrived on the agreed day except the oven, which was delivered personally the next day. Had a private fitter and everything fitted perfectly.
The only problem I had was the planner hadn't ordered enough handles but I was able to collect them from the local store the same day. The staff were very helpful and polite. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. My kitchen is fabulous and I love it!
Great stuff Philippa! Glad to hear a success story and that you love your kitchen.
The saga continues - here we are in Nov 2010 with a Cooke and Lewis Kitchen only partly delivered, without anyone ever saying it wasn't all there ... leaving your fitter to advise you, once he gets going, that he is missing side panels, doors, hinges and handles ... either in total or in part. And when you go into store you are told you can't get the parts you require, they all have to be ordered centrally with even further delays (and mistakes).
Despite the fact that the quality is fine and the in store staff try hard, their Cooke and Lewis national distribution is horrendous. Go somewhere else for your kitchen!
Hi Anonymous - sorry to hear about your saga - and thanks for your warning. Readers can draw their own conclusions.
I've moved your post to the end ... since I assume you're a new poster, rather than someone who's still trying to get their kitchen finished from 2008. That would be unrealistically bad - even for B&Q - wouldn't it?
The basic problem we all face in the modern world is unrealistic expectations.
We stupidly believe in human and scientific progress whilst forgetting the 3000 year old maxim "vanity, vanity, all is vanity...and there is nothing new under the sun" (Ecclesiates).
Our Victorian ancestors had much more realistic and practical ideas of how a kitchen should function - there would be a simple wooden table and some shelves and a stove into which you put coal and heat came out. Now kitchens are supposed to be masterpieces of design, fashion and function. They consist of thousands of parts and items which, when you think about it, are entirely unsuited to an environment swimming in water, dirt, dust, fat and heat. In addition, suppliers of goods are so hedged around with rules and regulations and we are so conditioned by the blame culture (nothing is ever our fault - like expecting something for nothing) that the only way big companies feel they can make any money is through that well tried and tested American technique: "purposeful pricing confusion" - you know, you go into Tesco and find you need to spend half an hour on the maths to work out the best deal on different size packs of cheese. Pack one is priced in kilos, the next in 100 gram units, the next in packs three for the price of two.....
I have learnt myself, as a reasonably competent DIYer that probably the only way to install something as complex and challenging as a new kitchen is to learn to do it yourself. Learn how to do plastic plumbing, then you will only need an electrician. If you can't do plastic plumbing you are not competent enough to buy and have installed for you a modern kitchen in today's over-complicated dog-eat-dog world.
Only employ a NICEIC contractor and be prepared to pay the going rate - if you do the maths you'll see why it's expensive. Don't pay the bill till you've got the inspection certificate. Work in years rather than months - don't laugh, get it right and it won't take longer to finish than if you employ 'installers'.
The first rule of DIY is: never do more than a small part at a time. The second rule is: make a plan of the kitchen (or bathroom)you want, plan, research, visit showrooms, get quotes, free advice, study the kitchens and goods on offer in places like B and Q or Wickes, have as many conversations as you can with the people selling kitchens in these shops and you will begin to realise that you already know more about their products than they do.
NEVER believe anything a salesman or 'technical expert' tells you. They don't know anything. They haven't been trained. Buy and try out, over and over again, say one or two cupboards and when you run into difficulties visit the showrooms again and study how they are put together, because the instructions in the packs are very poor. Take photographs in store with your mobile phone. Do not expect to make fast progress. Do not start an installation before Christmas. Start in January with the vague aim of finishing by next Christmas. Be very, very patient. Start work in the morning and aim to pack up by late afternoon. Do not make those around you suffer the consequences of a first class degree in maths not equipping you for the trials of the modern world.
I suppose, dear friend, you think I am talking off the top of my head. How mistaken you are. I, a mere layman, have studied and purchased B and Q and Wickes kitchens and bathrooms. I have ordered them online. I have successfully installed them, but only after making many mistakes and learning from them. They have arrived when they said they would, and the orders were complete, but I had prepared myself mentally for them not to be. I knew installation would be slow.
Little in this world can prepare you for the installation of the Wickes Belize semi-recessed basin with the supposedly matching vanity cabinet and worktop. You have to virtually reconstruct the whole thing. How can Wickes know where you waste pipe and water supply pipes will be? I used to detest installers but now I feel sorry for them. I cannot see how it is possible for a tradesman to do the job properly and make money, because of the thinking and planning time and adapting time involved. You virtually have to redesign and rebuild the cabinet to make it work. How would you know that in many cases the tolerances are only one or two millimetres to ensure a successful and aesthetically pleasing installation?
No my friend, the only way is to do it yourself, slowly, treating it as a learning process and developing in the process that trait of character known as fortitude. At the end of the process you will enter any one of the big stores and walk around with a smile of self-satisfaction, knowing that you have defeated the bastards.
Sorry Shrek - you're entitled to your opinion - but I think you're talking complete b----cks!
The Victorians had much simpler ideas about human health and life expectancy too ... but I, for one, wouldn't want to accept those as today's norm. Nor - if I, or someone I loved, needed surgery - would I feel it appropriate to learn how to do it myself.
My advice? To be wary of what a salesperson or technical expert tells you ... consult several ... and decide which ones DO know what they're talking about. Because some of them do.
If you don't want to be conned by fake "sales" or one off "discounts" - then go to a supplier that doesn't offer them. There are plenty about.
If you have a year to spare and don't need to earn a living ... then, by all means learn to fit your own kitchen ... but personally, I'd prefer to find a good fitter.
A good fitter doesn't need "thinking and planning time and adapting time" or to "virtually ... redesign and rebuild the cabinet to make it work". They already know how to fit the unit and to make it work properly, before they start.
If you're wary of B&Q and Wickes kitchens, or their fitters, then don't use them. Go to an independent kitchen supplier who can provide a similar (or better) quality kitchen and/or find yourself an independent kitchen fitter ... preferably one who comes with recommendations. You might even be able to combine the two - find an independent retailer with good fitters - or a fitter that supplies kitchens ... and save yourself a whole lot of time and trouble!
I got to say I laughed when reading Shreks post, but only cos I think a lot of it is true.
Now reading through this page, B&Q are taking a bit of a pounding. I'm not gonna say they're a great company, but I got to say as a joiner and running my own bathroom/kitchen fitting company, when we have to do a B&Q kitchen or bathroom suite, 9 times out of 10 all materials are there for us to start, and when something is missing/damaged we can usually get it before we walk off site.
B&Q staff are actually human, they know what it's like when things don't go to plan and always seem to put in the effort to get things sorted. And finally B&Q stuff is no different from anyone elses in that you get what you pay for - a £200 bathroom suite is never gonna be a good suite - functional yes - but not good. And the kitchens are the same - flat pack carcasse, a £4 door, £50 worktop, sub £100 sink & tap - what do you really expect ??
Very glad to hear that B&Q do actually deliver things complete most of the time! It's difficult to tell from a blog like this - because it will inevitably attract mostly complaints.
Yes it's full of the negatives on this post.
BUT I have just taken delivery of my Cook & Lewis kitchen myself and it was all there on time in full. It was a split delivery though but only 3 days apart and they did tell me this when I ordered.
I'm about half way through the fit and only found a broken drawer runner so far, a tiny plastic cog inside the runner has broken some teeth off, it causes the drawer to jam, a new one is on it's way.
Assembly instructions for the cabinets are brief & basic but adequate enough to use. More detailed fitting plans from the design would have been nice but I can work from what I have.
This is my first attempt at a kitchen, so far it seems to be going well.
Congratulations Andy - and I hope the kitchen gets finished off just as efficiently - as I'm sure it will.
I like some of B&Q's kitchens and I'm delighted that some of their satisfied customers have turned up here. Some of their doors are very good value - and it's a shame that people get put off by their reputation for being unable to deliver it all at one go. On the other hand ... B&Q are responsible for their own reputation ...
New Build
Asked B&Q to design and supply kitchen Dec 2010 ... took three days as computer kept losing design.
Goy design ordered - delivered Jan 2011
No Plan supplied - Computer cant print?
Built units ... find they are too big!
Took a week to get replaced but they arrived and I put them together (again)
Went to fit carousals ... didnt fit ... too large
Took a week to get replaced but they arrived and I put them together (again)
Went to build centre island ... units didn't align ... had to cut backs off to align
went to fit worktop ... too small! They had designed an island that was too big for their largest worktops !!!
Had to order two worktops to glue together to get size ... took a week to get replaced but they arrived and tried put them together (again) ... opened worktops wrong colour and warped!
Went to put larder units together ... wrong height ... took a week to get replaced but they arrived and I put them together (again)
Assembled wall units went to fit glass shelves ... dont fit ... sold me the wrong cabinets. Took a week to get replaced but some arrived and I put them together (again)
Waited for balance, when it arrived it was smashed
Doors didnt close, hinges missing
Integrated washing machines 68mm short in height - advised to put them on two halves of a work surface
Do I need to go on?
Its now May and the kitchen is still incomplete
NEVER BUY A B&Q KITCHEN .... AND NEVER BOTHER TO COMPLAIN TO HEAD OFFICE ...THEY ARE _)__)__)_+_!
I thought all this positive news was too good to last!
You do seem to have had a particularly bad time, though, Quovadis ... and thank you for telling us about it. You have my sympathy ... not that it'll do you any good.
A lot of your problems seem to stem from the measurements being wrong - or the designer making mistakes - or both. Did the designer come out and measure? For other readers, it's worth noting that getting the measurements right is absolutely crucial!
Majjie, 'IMHO'
I am looking to replace my existing bathroom with new. So why am I on your "Kitchen Design" page? Because I was looking for the dimensions for a "Cooke & Lewis" corner WC(toilet)and just can't find them anywhere!
Now I am NOT talking about the 'overall' or 'basic' dimensions, they are available on the B&Q site. NO, I am talking about the 'design' or 'detailed' dimensions. These would include the position and size of the water inlet, the position and size of the overflow pipe (if it needs one), and most important, the position and size (4" or 100 mm) of the outlet 'soil' pipe. I need these items to work out how the item will fit (IF it will fit). Most importantly the outlet into the hole in the floor! (you can't 'work' 4" pipe for small offsets with any hope of a good job even when the pipe is plastic).
Without these dimensions no designer can come up with a WORKING layout. Rather, just a layout he or she HOPES will work and the fitter must do the rest. Since I will be the fitter I will give "Cooke & Lewis" a miss and move on to the more expensive makes/suppliers who do give the full dimensions (normally in a “.pdf” file download).
Will I tell B&Q about this problem? Yes. Will they do anything about it? No. Might this indicate one of the problems with the kitchens? Probably! Such is life!
Best wishes to all who are having problems with their kitchens.
Stuart.
Thanks for your comment Stuart - I know exactly what you mean. It's a problem I constantly come up against as an independent designer. Many manufacturers don't make all the planning details available.
You'd think that B&Q - which is aiming at DIYers would provide more details. I'm not sure it's the problem with the kitchens, though ... I think most of them were designed by in-house designers ... who presumably DO have all the planning details. Did you try talking to one of the in-house bathroom designers - or do they not have such people? (I don't know much about bathrooms!)
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