I've been talking to kitchen suppliers recently and have visited a few cabinetmakers to talk about the sorts of kitchen they can make. I've always been a bit sniffy, in the past, about cabinets (carcasses) and painted doors made out of pine ... but I'm beginning to change my mind ... I think!
I wrote a blog some time ago, called All About Walnut ... because there were so many different colours and appearances for both real and pretend walnut ... and came to the conclusion that it was all very confusing. Well - exactly the same could probably be said about pine. I've already come across several different sorts of pine, in my designing career, but my recent research unearthed some strange statements, such as: "Southern yellow pine is a typical redwood" and "white pines are soft and yellow pines are hard" ... but isn't pine a softwood?

knotty pine
Many upmarket kitchen suppliers don't use pine - they use birch ply or mdf for cabinets - and tulipwood (a hardwood) for painted doors. That's because pine has some disadvantages:
There's more than one sort of pine, though. Pine is, indeed a softwood, but the timber trade talks about soft or white pines ... and then hard pines, also known as yellow pines, pitch pines and redwoods.
Whitewood (white softwood), or spruce, or deal, comes from the tree species Picea (in the family Pinaceae). There are two main species; Picea sitchensis (Sitka spruce) which is the main commercial tree grown in the UK (although not originally a native - it comes from North America) and Picea abies (the Norway spruce) which is very similar. The fir tree, Abies alba, is also used to produce timber called whitewood, white deal or silver fir ... and there are some true pines which produce what is known as white or soft pine, such as Pinus sibirica (the Siberian pine). Whitewood is very cheap ... but not suitable for good quality furniture.
Douglas fir is not a true fir in spite of it's name (the firs are all Abies spp) - it comes from the tree Pseudotsuga menziesii - a false hemlock. The timber from the Douglas fir is very strong, though, and I've heard it recommended for furniture by at least one cabinetmaker. (It's also known as British Columbian pine, Columbian pine and Oregon pine).
The harder pine timbers generally come from true pine species - the genus Pinus. There's American Southern yellow pine (or American pitch pine, longleaf pine, Carolina pine, Southern pine, pitch pine or longleaf pitch pine) which comes mainly from Pinus palustris but also from some other species ... which is different from Western yellow or Ponderosa pine (Pinus ponderosa) ... but both are strong timbers and very resinous.
Then there's Canadian yellow pine or Quebec yellow confusingly also known as Eastern white pine. It comes from the tree Pinus strobus and is known for being more stable than other pines with fewer knots and less resin - although it's also the softest of the pines. It's used in this country for pine doors for kitchens, and for free standing pine furniture ... real pine finishes, in other words, rather than painted furniture.

Marpatt's Antique Pine kitchen door is, I believe, made from Canadian yellow pine
(but don't quote me on that!) - it's a classic door that's been around quite a few years.
The white ceramic handles date this picture - but imagine it with some contemporary
handles and it would still make a good looking kitchen
The type of pine that seems to be used the most, for high quality kitchens, is Scandinavian redwood (also known as European redwood, Russian pine or Swedish pine ... or, indeed, Scots pine - when it's grown in the UK) all of which come from the species Pinus sylvestris. It's a slow growing tree producing wood with a tight grain and higher density than whitewood pines, making it inherently more stable and less likely to warp or twist. Most of the wood is ethically grown too.
I also came across another pine recently ... one that I hadn't seen before ... called radiata (from Pinus radiata or Pinus insignis). It's also known as Monterey pine. It's a fascinating story. As it's name suggests, Monterey pine comes from a small area of California where the tree doesn't, now, grow very well at all. It was only when some trees were exported and grown in temperate climates in other countries, that it was recognised as an extraordinarily fast growing tree, suitable for producing timber. It's now the dominant timber plantation tree in New Zealand and is also widely grown in Australia, South Africa and Chile.

radiata pine
Because it's so fast growing and has been selected to reduce knots (fewer branches), the wood has a fine straight grain, without the characteristic swirling pattern of a lot of pine wood. It's very stable - for pine - holds screws and nails very well, and also accepts stains and finishes well ... making it suitable for staining in imitation of other, more expensive timbers, such as walnut or cherry ... as well as for paint finishes.
So why should you consider pine for your kitchen. Well it's advantages are:
Comments
Well, it looks good to me ... but take ten different cabinetmakers and you'll get ten different replies.
I went to see one this morning who uses Scandinavian redwood for the carcasses but whitewood for any pine frontals ... he reckoned it was all in the selection of the individual pieces and in how well they were dried!
Oh well! I did try to get to the bottom of it.
My revised advice is - avoid whitewood - unless it's a very long standing cabinetmaker, with a good reputation, advising you to use it.
The information in your post is good and really useful. I am in a bit of confusion about pine. Actually, I am renovating my kitchen for Christmas.
So, Will you suggest to me which pine I should use for my kitchen, knotty pine or radiata pine?
That seems a strange question to come from a kitchen design company! I do wish you link gatherers would be more imaginative with your comments.
For anyone else ... if you're looking for an actual pine finish, then knotty pine might be for you (there are still enthusiasts for pine out there, even though it's a bit out of fashion). If, on the other hand, you're planning to paint your kitchen - then go for radiata pine every time.
Glad you're converting to being a 'pine-lover'.
Have always loved wooden furniture and cabinets, think they're so much more friendly and homely than metal or covered chip-board.
Genuinely enjoyed what you had to say! Thanks!!!!
Not sure I'd go so far as to say I was a "pine lover" ... but glad you enjoyed it anyway!
We had a new pine kitchen built by a company in Belper Derbyshire. I never thought to ask what pine they would use.
Our doors have warped and shrunk causing catches to break. The company have been out to make repairs on numerous occasions but the doors still keep moving.
I have been advised to have our utility built out of Quebec yellow as this is a more stable pine. Would you agree or should we look for a different pine. As regards the kitchen I guess we are stuck with an inferior product.
Well Ian, I'm not sure I'm the right person to ask, since I just design the kitchens ... and even cabinetmakers disagree about the merits of pine - as I've been finding out!
Quebec Yellow does indeed have a reputation for being more stable but, as I said above, it's a very soft pine, likely to dent and mark.
I know several cabinetmakers who use mainly pine for their kitchens - and always for the carcasses - and I know several others who wouldn't touch pine carcasses with a barge pole (one being a convert from pine when they had the exact same problems you mention).
I guess what I'm saying is, that it's not the actual pine that really matters - it's the manufacturer using it. If they know what they're doing and select the right timber, then you should be ok. If they don't select the right wood, then you may have problems, even with a pine species that performs perfectly well for another supplier.
Not much help I'm afraid. I take it you don't like the idea of standard chipboard carcasses?
I am going for a painted in frame kitchen and now trying to decide between suppliers offering:
a solid pine kitchen
or mdf veneered with oak/tulipwood doors
or, failing that, non in frame with rigid mfc.
I am totally confused - what do you think would be best - the pine guy has been making stuff for years so should know his stuff, but the Belper story has made me think!
Your views?
Hi Maggie,
I'm guessing the pine guy is cheaper? You could always ask him if you could go and see one of his painted kitchens that's been in for a few years (2 or 3 years at least) ... and see how it looks.
If it was my kitchen, though, and the price wasn't too high ... I'd go for the veneered MDF and tulipwood one ... because I know that combination works well (although I probably shouldn't be saying that on my pine blog!).
Whether or not to go for in-frame furniture ... rather than standard doors with rigid chipboard carcasses ... all depends on what you want for your kitchen. In frame units have a completely different look - much more like real furniture - they always look classier I think.
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